Hello all

I am becoming increasingly more frustrated with the way in which we allow play within our BF3 servers. I find the constant running a real drain. I like to think that having taken part in the survey, as requested, that there would be some adjustments or obvious feedback. I appreciate that we have added a smaller server and that does, on ocassions, make for more worthwhile playing. However as a supporter and donator to BK I feel that there is still more that could be done to reduce the amount of "run gun" action.

I understand that any adjustment to the styles of acceptable play in polite and friendly servers would increase the amount of admin activity to an almost intollerable level. This said I am more than willing to offer my services as an admin to assist in reducing work loads if required. I will list my main concerns below and await any feedback. I do not proffess to be an expert in the areas of computing and some of what I am suggesting may not even be practicably achievable. However I am a believer in that "dont ask dont get" So here goes.

1. Make a rule that running is only allowed in certain situations (Simlar to that of black ops)
2. Allow the use of all vehicles
3. Control the number of mortar users on each team

I am sure that there are more things that would increase the enjoymen level f many BK members and I have no doubt that the survey must have highlighted a priority list of them. My short list above is not exhaustive and is but a mear drop in the ocean as far as considerations go. I do not wish to come across as unreasonable. Please feel free to add any comments.

Thank you all.

Salute Green x

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You cannot talk yourself out of trouble you walked right into![color=green][/color]

From the outset, far before release, it was 99% settled that we would not enforce crouching. WIth the map sizes the way they are, it's just impractical to enforce the Crouch Rule. I LOVE the crouch gameplay in Black Ops and WAW, and I'd fully support it in BF3 is it was a plausiblly reasonable thing to do, but It just isn't.  Even if we wanted to enforce a 'Sometimes Crouch' thing, how would we go about making rules for it, that would be clear and easy to follow? With all the hidey-holes in the BF3 maps, you can sprint to a spot, and just crouch aroudn teh area and stalk your prey. Sometimes running is a necessity when you're trying to take out a vehicle while on foot.

As for the mortars, I too, hate them, and I find them VERY boring to use. But I've found an easy stratagy to halt or elssen mortaring; I whip out my Usport Kit, adn use a mortar ONLY on other mortars. I've done it a fewe times now, and after killing the mortar guy 3 or 4 times, they always stop. I kill them, pick up my mortar, move over a bit, and by the time i get it set up again, that other guy already has, and i take him out again. I find it pretty entertaining and the other guy seems to get the point pretty quickly. While i'd like to see them being disallowed on our servers, I doubt it's going to happen.

Not sure what you mean about the vehicles thing.. we do allow use of all. And folks are slowly getting better at waiting for vehicle seats to fill before leaving a spawn.

I'm finding the overall BF3 experience is getting better, now that we're starting to weeding out the idiots and are getting regular players that respect our rules.

..geez, that's a long-winded response. Not intended. Killing you is fun, Green. Please stick around.

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-- Of all the soles I've ever tasted, his had the most   ....cumin. --

I know that I am not a member of BK, but thought I would post my thoughts here.

I am a huge fan of the CoD crouch servers you guys run. Actually, they are the only reason I played CoD past the first release of CoD 4.

1 - It is not really a good idea for any of the conquest maps whether it be the small or large ones. They are too large for crouch or walk only with way too many open areas to cross. I do not count Bazaar, Crossing and Metro as real conquest maps, but crouch/walk only could probably work there. As far as Rush and the Deathmatch games go, I don't know. I haven't played any Deathmatch and playing Rush makes me want to throw my keyboard out the window.

2 - I wasn't aware BK limited vehicle use, so no comment here.

3 - I never bothered to check as I assumed EA is sticking with what is allowed to be changed by admins of ranked servers. With all previous versions of BF, to keep your server's ranked status, admins were not allowed to limit kit or weapon usage or hinder regular gameplay (ie: pistol and knife only, no nade launchers, no rocket launchers against infantry). If these were reported by players in your servers, EA would have your server's ranked status revoked. As I originally said, I haven't checked, so this may not be the case. As far as mortars go, I think they have made a mistake in the way the game sees mortars. They are not classified as a vehicle, but a gadget for your kit like C4. Unlike C4, the game sees mortars as vehicles which is why they have unlimited ammo. The coding for mortars needs to be changed so that is no longer the case. I also think that if/when this coding change is made, they should also be moved to the engineer class instead of the support class so that they cannot be reloaded by the person using them.

If you guys are going to be testing crouch/walk only gameplay, let me know. I would love to help out as an outside source of information.  

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I don't mind the run and gun, Many times I find myself slowing down and crouching as I search an area like I would in real life and I find I get a lot more kills doing so. As for Mortars I have to say I have fun with them. I don't use them all the time, but when defending an area I will from far away, I also use them to combat Snipers and as mentioned other Mortars. I know it's not fun getting killed every second, but I have the same feeling with Tanks and LAV's as a guy on the ground getting chased by LAV's and Tanks is no fun for me, so I adapt and improvise switch to Engineer and drop mines or use my LAW's and stuff then move on.

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Two simple reasons why I think a crouch rule is a bad idea:

1.  The size of the game maps in BF3, especially Conquest Large, are significantly larger than typical FPS games.  Even with the current ability to run across the maps, a player may spend a minute or more before engaging the enemy.  Even then, the player might die instantly and spawn to trek across the expansive map all over again.
2.  The stance changing mechanic of BF3 requires significantly more time than typical FPS games.  If you are prone or crouched in BF3, it takes you time to actually rise to a standing position.  As a result, being prone or crouched is a commitment and mitigates the chances a player will be able to move quickly and avoid direct fire/threats.

Green - very frustrating for me too! I think the only way to be good is to play as a squad and work together to suppress the run and gunners. My pet peeve is being killed within seconds of spawning so I just don't seem to progress any and isn't fun.

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I want to clear up my comment about vehicles - My point was that most of them drive off half empty (not lift sharing!!! and this is harmful to the environment lol!) No seriously I get out of breath chasing a half empty Hmv or tank when it is the last one to leave the spawn base area! only to see the driver get blasted off of the planet because they didnt have a gunner or more pairs of eyes to support them. The issue is ensuring that vehicles are used to their fullest advantage ONLY - BK do allow the use of all vehicles so dont get this confused please.

As for Uchi-mata I went through the sapwn die phase and learnt quick that spawning on your squad needs to be done after comms - If comms go down dont risk it and spawn in your base for a safer arrival!

Thank you for your comments and please keep them coming. The more the merrier.

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You cannot talk yourself out of trouble you walked right into![color=green][/color]

I agree with you Green. It's very importain to remember to squad up in the game and to remember to wait for people to hop in with you. I have notcied in a few games that BK Members were making squads with only 2 members in them and then locking it down, this is something we need to work on as a team. I have had the chance a few times to get into a all BK Squad which is fun, SonnyGunns is a great squad leader and almost always makes where he wants us to go. Hop in a squad and lock it until another BK member ask to get in.

Battlefield 3 is a Team Based game and squading up is a must. Lone wolfs do not get far in the game. Lets all do our best to work together and learn each other's play styles. I for one love the Assult / Medic class and the support class. try to have at least one of everything in your squad.

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Hey guys I'm at work but really quick WE ALLOW ALL WEAPONS AND VEHICLES. As for running the maps is so large that I'm not sure we could not allow running and still play conquest. With that said I highly recommend all BK use running to move to cover and use cover to pick off people running around like crazy.

As for being killed as soon as you spawn remember you can control where you spawn. If you spawn at a control point that is under attack try spawning at a different one or your main base and attack the attackers from behind. (On a side note I got spawned killed more often in Black Ops then in BF3 now that I can pick where I spawn.)

If you are new with BF3 or just want to be better at it let everyone in TS know and we will team up with you and help you learn BF3 better.

GOA.Luke*BK*

Sorry guys have a meeting.

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A passing visitor's viewpoint.
Hello gentlemen.  
I was first introduced to BK through PF sourcing you for BO.  I very much liked the controlled mayhem of the engagements on your servers. There was team work, methodical targeting, excellent comms and structure.  The CROUCH  servers ensured that the RUN&GUN style of play was erradicated.
Now while it's true to say most of the above points have crossed into BF3 the finess of structured play is lacking because if an individual wants to join on a server and charge about in any way, he can.
I much prefer to have a controlled exit from spawn, use a fast recon jeep to spot enemy and move upto engage.  Using top cover to spot and destroy targets too.  I would also like to see more squads taking and then defending bases instead of the mass exidus from the captured base to move onto the next one.  Some should be left behind to hold or at least make a defensive line with all the captured bases behind it.

My problem is comming up with a way to ensure the runner-gunner who destroys a good tactical game experience is compromised, like the crouch style on BO did.
As has been said above by Luke and others the map size require the need for speed at times but maybe enforcing squad joining and following squad orders would make the experience much less console like.
So providing the majority of BK want to be structured and team like then it should happen as any singles joining the server would need to squad join up which would put them under control.

Maybe some of the goodies in tomorrows MOD PACK  will allow you to make your BK servers the place to be to experience BF3 in the raw of war.

I have a dream......................

I like what you're suggesting, Barnaby.  However, I think it's best that we lead by example in that regard.  Asking Squad Leaders to designate an objective when they haven't done so, offering to provide cover, repair, etc in squad channel or team channel helps make connections with players.  It's safe to say a number of players, even semi-regulars, on BF3 Rush still incur warnings for rules from time to time.  After awhile, I think we'll have a solid base of nonBK regulars who visit and can also lead by example.  Some players enjoy the lone wolf style of play, and I think we should not require them to be a team player, but invite them to work together on an objective in channel when possible.  If they just prefer to be a one man army, then that's okay by me, too.  Thanks for the insight.  I had a lot of fun on the COD:BO servers myself.

On more of the squad based/objective based play, I find that if you stick with your squad mates, and start dropping ammo or health, or repairing them, they will almost always return the favor almost immediately.

I had a squad of ppl who i had never played with or talked to before, and we were all individually around middle of the scoreboard.  I started calling objectives and reviving them, and all of a sudden, we were playing as a unit and topping the scoreboard.

What we can do, start grouping together with BK, if you can.  I know this runs a bit counter to out 'include everyone' directive, but if we show that working together can result in walking over the enemy, they will start to do the same.

Just my thoughts...

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First and foremost I have never been a run and gunner. But as many have said here any type of crouch rule in BF3 just would be impossible to enforce and I think would make the game less enjoyable for most. For us crouchers we have to learn and adapt to the BF3 game play style. BF3 is a big improvement over BF BC2. For the most part I really enjoy the game the most when BK members squad up and work as a squad. I believe there are still a few crouch only BF3 servers out there try the game play and see what you think. I found the matches to be really slow and boring.

As far as the mortars go I think we need to wait and see if Dice is going to turn down the mortars a bit in the next patch. Like limit the number of motors a player can have for each life. I give DICE credit for listening to players and making adjustments. We may also look at not allowing players to mortar from their own deployment area which will make it much easier to hunt down the soldier and kill him.

All in all I like and enjoy the game sure I get frustrated sometimes but as I said squad up with BK members and work as a squad it can be fun. The game requires a little more thinking than CoD.

Thanks Barnaby for your thoughts and comments.

So everyone just play and have fun, not having fun take a break and return to some other favorite game.

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I have noted recently that we are starting to get more into squading up and working more in unity whilst in BF3. I like the comments above about healing, re-sup, and repair for team and squad memebers. I think it is more important in BF3 to have a good communication base to work well as a team. The bettlelog option along side TS3 means that you can keep abreast of all the general chatter (and sometimes there is a lot of it!) in the welcome channel whilst listening to and working with your squad or team in the battle log group channel.

When this happens it certainly makes for a different feel tot he game. Missions have a purpose and are way more enjoyable even if I still end up with a high kill/death ratio I have enjoyed the moment (so to speak)

I also see that conversing with your squad leader to ensure that your squad has the correct aray of weaponary is also a good way forward. I suggest going to war with no medic would be considered a basic error!

I want to thank those that have contributed here for the content thus far. I hope to see more suggestions here if any are available.  

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You cannot talk yourself out of trouble you walked right into![color=green][/color]

The biggest thing EA/DICE can do for BF3 is add in game VOIP/Squad Speak. Lets face it, you are going to get into a squad with people that you don't know. I for one am not going to go back to battlelog and add them to my friends list and attempt to make a group with them through battlelog. The in game VOIP/Squad Speak would easily allow us to get our squad mates more involved with us or us with them. This would also make it much easier to identify the players that do not have squad play in mind while in game.

I still think that EA/DICE need to change the coding for mortars so that they do not act as a vehicle in game and change the kit they are associated with.

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