Ps im with Karow 32 run and gun with out vehicles wouuld be a great add on. RUSH!  Come on I miss rush
Luke? LOL

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I will throw in an opinion but I think from a different perspective than you might think I am going to make. When I first started I was terrilbe at certain aspects of the game. But in my previous clan I had some great members (some of them are members of this clan) who encouraged me to try different classes and weapons. In that respect I developed into a well-rounded player. At times I still revert back to my comfort zone of movement and weapons but without being pushed outside my comfort zone I would have never become good at different styles of play and weapons. The good thing about my previous clan and why it was so good is we pushed each other to be better. One person would excel at a certain mode or with a certain weapon and all the others instead of giving up would take a beating but always pushing to get better at that style or weapon.

So how does that play into this issue being discussed? Well by taking away a mode that allows players to sit back and be comfortable they will now have to adapt to and get better with the other classes and weapons. Will there be a few beatings handed out in the mean time? Yes but it will only make you a better player. It's how we as a person excel. Look at this as an opportunity to push your gaming to a new level. I think this will make us all better players even if there is a little growing pains involved.

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"Do or do not there is no try!"

Okay, time for my 2 cents.  When I initially heard that we were banning recon from the crouch server, my initial reaction was heck no!  I thought I'd give it a try and read the thread on the forums.  No that I have sometime to think about it, my initial reaction was correct.  So now instead of recon and rifles is support and DMR's, it ends up being the same.  What we have done is used a butchers knife to cut off our arm for a splinter in a finger.  This changes nothing.  In fact I think it hurs the game since eliminating the recon class, eliminates all of their perks and more importantly gadgets.  The one thing I have always had an issue with in the battlefield series is the absolute terrible spawns.  Getting rid of recon also eliminated the one gadget to help correct that.  Overall this is a poor decision that it seems to me was made by a small cliche and not the clan as a whole.  I will continue to play for a few more days, if it doesn't change, I will find other servers to play on.

Sabre256

Fair enough. If I want to play recon I can go to another server, but I think it should be reverse eventually. It doesn't affect me as severely as making me want to leave BK. What clan I am in has no negative impact on how I want to play considering all the servers available.

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SSMajorKoenig wrote (View Post):

it comes down to how hardcore of a gamer are you. I mean if ur whining about all perks on a hardcore server then go play on a normal mode map. I have no problem not using a sniper rifle but its on hardcore. I thought this clan was hardcore. I cant even sit in ts welcome channel anymore because there is just soooo much complaining, and Im not calling anyone out but If you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen. If you cant handle hardcore go to a normal server.  Don't complain because you cant win and whine to have something changed,go out and FIND A WAY TO WIN, thats how u get better.  watch my video about Bruce Lee at the top.  Its just going too far now. It starts with recon, next its the mortaring in spawn, then its the auto sniper rifles, rpg's etc.

I don't think it is complaining about hardcore or sniper in NORMAL maps - in which you have vehicles and can run. The issue is that the game (in Hard Core) was not designed for small maps in CROUCH mode, in which it was just easy to turn it into a quick-draw one shot kill server. When everyone selects the sniper rifle, which is a one-shot kill and no need to even plan a sniper or use a scope, because the map is too small and everyone is moving VERY slowly in crouch - the entire game play became rather silly.

Hardcore one-shot kill, hip firing, CQB map, with crouch - - you're kidding right?

Creating custom game play may (unfortunately) require limited options.


BTW: I have no issues with SNIPERS if I can run, use a vehicle, and play on a larger map.  Also - it's hard for me to complain, since my 3rd Mic has been broken for months (hope Santa brings me a new one).

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sabre256 wrote (View Post):

Okay, time for my 2 cents.  When I initially heard that we were banning recon from the crouch server, my initial reaction was heck no!  I thought I'd give it a try and read the thread on the forums.  No that I have sometime to think about it, my initial reaction was correct.  So now instead of recon and rifles is support and DMR's, it ends up being the same.  What we have done is used a butchers knife to cut off our arm for a splinter in a finger.  This changes nothing.  In fact I think it hurs the game since eliminating the recon class, eliminates all of their perks and more importantly gadgets.  The one thing I have always had an issue with in the battlefield series is the absolute terrible spawns.  Getting rid of recon also eliminated the one gadget to help correct that.  Overall this is a poor decision that it seems to me was made by a small cliche and not the clan as a whole.  I will continue to play for a few more days, if it doesn't change, I will find other servers to play on.

Sabre256

I think the problem that people had was that the damage model of the sniper rifle is maxed out at 100-110 and at range (long-range) it drops to 59+.
Since hardcore health is set to 60, that makes the sniper rifle a one shot kill almost at any range (note two sniper rifles damage at 100+ at ANY range).

If the sniper rifle was only 50 damage (anything <60), I don't think people would have an issue and we would certainly not see snipers dominate the CROUCH small map server.

Three problems with the sniper weapon on a Crouch Server.

1. The small maps make the sniper rifles the ONLY  ONE-SHOT kill weapon at range.
2. It's a crouch sever, making acquiring targets fairly easy.
3. There are no vehicles to eliminate snipers.

The server quickly became dominated by sniper one-shot CQB game play. For the first few weeks it was almost all snipers. I watched how many times I was killed and it was well over 75% by snipers.

The custom game play of small maps, crouch, and no vehicles makes the sniper rifle the only real primary weapon choice in hardcore.


DMRs, Shotguns with Slugs, and other primary weapons are still not one-shot kills on the smaller map.

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I think it is a wise decision to have no Recon...besides, I suck at Recon anyway...actually, as I think about it, I suck no matter which class I choose...but I still think it is a wise decision officers!

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I'm not sure why the supporters of No Recon believe it solves anything. A Recon player with a bolt-action can kill you in 1 shot, sure. A Support player with a DMR can kill you with 2 shots that he fired by double-clicking the mouse. And that's why the server went from a majority of Recon to a majority of Support players. I'm taking this as an opportunity to play elsewhere until the new year or something changes on the server. 4 open maps with TDM isn't interesting to me personally.

Actually my guns change with my maps, each map gets a different style gun for me. I usually play engineer, 1 DMR + 1 RPG   means u can get a lot done.  The overlook map can be used with a shotgun decently too. I'm for whatever, just wanna play with people I know. And I do like some of the pistol only servers also. Tanks and Helicopters are Awesome, it is all fun.

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Damon wrote (View Post):

I'm not sure why the supporters of No Recon believe it solves anything. A Recon player with a bolt-action can kill you in 1 shot, sure. A Support player with a DMR can kill you with 2 shots that he fired by double-clicking the mouse. And that's why the server went from a majority of Recon to a majority of Support players. I'm taking this as an opportunity to play elsewhere until the new year or something changes on the server. 4 open maps with TDM isn't interesting to me personally.

What is your suggestion then?

SSMajorKoenig wrote (View Post):

No Im not upset I have no problem using any other weapons but Im used to hardcore being hardcore

I do not have this game yet, but if we cut out one class do we cut out another because some one has a one shot weapon in it. I agree with Major hardcore is hardcore which includes ALL classes and all perks and all weapons. The mortar is a one shot weapon the can be shot into bases if you take out the sniper rifles shouldn't you take out the mortar, and if that happens what weapon get taken out next. At that rate there won't be a class or weapon to use, I say put on your big boy pants and deal with the snipers or as Karow and Two-Four mentioned put up another server.

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Mouse-BK- wrote (View Post):

SSMajorKoenig wrote (View Post):

No Im not upset I have no problem using any other weapons but Im used to hardcore being hardcore

I do not have this game yet, but if we cut out one class do we cut out another because some one has a one shot weapon in it. I agree with Major hardcore is hardcore which includes ALL classes and all perks and all weapons. The mortar is a one shot weapon the can be shot into bases if you take out the sniper rifles shouldn't you take out the mortar, and if that happens what weapon get taken out next. At that rate there won't be a class or weapon to use, I say put on your big boy pants and deal with the snipers or as Karow and Two-Four mentioned put up another server.

Or just get rid of our crouch servers entirely, since they "limit" the way some people want to play the game.

"Or just get rid of our crouch servers entirely, since they "limit" the way some people want to play the game."

Tet, that comment was not well thought out.  Crouch Servers are the backbone for BK.
That just opened up a whole new "can of worms".
I enjoy playing In BK because of the Membership and the Crouch.
Yes, in time get a 32 slot Infantry Only Run and Gun server would be nice too.

tet,

I suggest the following.

1. Allow all kits (ie: Assault, Engineer, Support, and Recon) to be playable with no limitation on loadout. Note: The only exception I would want for this, is if a weapon/gadget/etc becomes temporarily broken (from a patch) to the point it's use is an exploit.
2. Remove maps with a majority of open areas (Hainan Resort, Lancang Dam) from the rotation. Note: I haven't played the new China Rising maps enough to determine if any of them cater too much to sniper gameplay, where it would be an exploit of the crouching rule.
3. Always include objective based game modes (ie: Domination) in the rotation, so that camping in one place is not a winning strategy for the team in every match. I would still want to see TDM included, though I dislike SDM (due to how it scrambles friends into different squads/teams).

I believe that selecting specific maps and game modes is the best way to resolve the sniping issue perceived by so many players on server 1. As more map packs are released, it should become easier to maintain. I also believe sniping should be a viable option for players who enjoy that style of gameplay. However, I think it is a problem when that style of gameplay is chosen by a majority of players, because it has become the best method of scoring, due to the open areas of maps and the slow moving targets.

Damon wrote (View Post):

tet,

I suggest the following.

1. Allow all kits (ie: Assault, Engineer, Support, and Recon) to be playable with no limitation on loadout. Note: The only exception I would want for this, is if a weapon/gadget/etc becomes temporarily broken (from a patch) to the point it's use is an exploit.
2. Remove maps with a majority of open areas (Hainan Resort, Lancang Dam) from the rotation. Note: I haven't played the new China Rising maps enough to determine if any of them cater too much to sniper gameplay, where it would be an exploit of the crouching rule.
3. Always include objective based game modes (ie: Domination) in the rotation, so that camping in one place is not a winning strategy for the team in every match. I would still want to see TDM included, though I dislike SDM (due to how it scrambles friends into different squads/teams).

I believe that selecting specific maps and game modes is the best way to resolve the sniping issue perceived by so many players on server 1. As more map packs are released, it should become easier to maintain. I also believe sniping should be a viable option for players who enjoy that style of gameplay. However, I think it is a problem when that style of gameplay is chosen by a majority of players, because it has become the best method of scoring, due to the open areas of maps and the slow moving targets.

1) We already limit certain things in both World at War and Black Ops, why the resistance in BF4?
2) They are doing what they can with maps, but if we just took that suggestion we would most likely end up with Locker 24/7.
3) Game mode doesn't matter.  I've noticed a lot of people(including a few BK members) treat every game mode as TDM.